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I'm just on the fringe of the legal eagles as a third-party benefit administrator...certainly not qualified to take 'em on. My goal is really to present the other side of the Firstline recruiting scam, which truly sucks people in before slamming them with the reality of what they'll be doing.
I'm really glad that you've been able to be successful. More power to ya. Having said that, I take issue with some of your judgments on others; specifically:
Area? Saturated markets? Selling air? Give me a break…Thanks to Firstline I could sell salt to a slug.
Yes, I have not argued with this single benefit of time with Firstline. Anyone who spends time doing this will definitely be able to sell, even salt to a slug. Does that make it less deceptive or better? Nah...It just means that you've got the skill of pressuring someone to sign on the dotted line on impulse whether they need to or not.
I have watched many people fail at this, and it’s not entirely their fault. Weakness is bred into people by those around them (i.e. parents who make excuses for a failed attempt to fly, blaming the cliff they attemted to fly from, or cursing the winds for not carrying them).
Wow, you've gone beyond drinking the KoolAid right into mixing it for other folks to drink with this statement. You are obviously suited for direct sales and that's great. Not every person is. Maybe because they look intimidating, or they're not articulate or they just feel weird knocking on someone's door. I don't know what it is, but trying to jam every person on the planet without the gift for face-to-face sales is just silly. Not only that, but you've decided to blame everyone but the folks at Firstline, who clearly share some of it when folks fail. Sorry, but there are some who make awesome mechanical engineers or insurance actuaries who shouldn't ever attempt direct sales. That doesn't make them failures. Get real here and acknowledge that what works for you won't work for everyone, nor should it. (I won't speak to the question of how ethics factor into this -- you're the one who has to look in the mirror and like the person looking back at you).
Success or failure, riches or empty pockets, if you’re out here for the money, you’re out here for the wrong reason.
Precisely, but THAT'S HOW IT WAS SOLD. Dude, hear this. These students had the promise of the big bucks put in front of them. Did they wake up one morning and say "Gosh, I feel compelled to be a Firstline evangelist and walk the streets selling security systems all day!"? No, of course not.
They were RECRUITED ON THE PROMISE OF THE MONEY. So don't point a finger of judgment at them for actually wanting to make some.
Your inarticulate and somewhat predictable use of the word "pussies" more or less undoes whatever point you were trying to make.
However, I slogged through and am very happy that it works for you. It sounds like you don't need any stinkin' million dollar payoff anyway, so why do you care if the Prodigy happens?
I agree with Jeremy in a way that he'd do anything for his Firstline family. The people Ive met are amazing, and my time with them has changed my life in a big way. You find a much larger respect for people who do this from all different lifestyles. Its amazing how people come together when its seriously one of the hardest times of your life.
But disagree with his comment about weakness. I find it hard to believe that you can put that generalization into every single person who has set foot in the program. I myself went into the program, this summer, and came home after 3 weeks. I admit partly to a weakness. However, my father left for Iraq for a year (without prior knowledge until I got there) , 2 family members were on there deathbed, pending approval to stay at my university because of academic reasons--all in the time I was there, this was thrown on my shoulders.
I missed out I admit. But what I wanted to do, and what I needed to....at that point was 2 different things.
I don't believe that the market is saturated by any means, it all depends on your presentation and if the customer has a true need for the product at that time. You see it in everyday life....
Your handle is an apt description. You are one of the few Firstliners who has made a reasonable and balanced comment. And I do agree with you about the bonding that happens between the team. I think there are probably lifelong friends that have been made as a result of the experience.
The market saturation is probably a function of location. I was really speaking to the saturation here in California, where it really has been saturated for years. Perhaps it isn't the same in Texas.
I hope your situation has improved, and that your father remains safe and well during his time in Iraq.
Its time to represent,
Jack-son-ville what time is it!!
We are the smallest office by far and we started late. We don't get paid what we expected but God damnit, I love sellin with everyone I have met in this company. I will do this the rest of my life, and so will everyone else I work with. Plus, I get free home cooked dinner almost every day from families that I may end up saving their lives some day.
You have a wise mother who has passed her wisdom on to you. When it's all said and done, you have taken the best lessons possible away from the experience. I didn't use the exact words she did, but something close -- basically to take the skills learned and apply them in an environment that was honest, up-front, and which would reward hard work.
I'm not sure the ones who quit because of the tactics would have stayed if they'd been paid what they were promised, because if they didn't use those tactics, they weren't succeeding.
I have worked in sales for nine years, when I worked for a communications company called MCI the tactics were very shady to obtain new customers, we actually were trained to lie. I worked in a bar at applebees, our liquor percentage had to very high, basically the bar was losing money, on the computer there was this button for long pouring it added an extra 40 cents to the price, we were told that on top of the happy hour price we had to long pour twice. The customer had no idea, basically we were robbing the customer, loored in be a tactic of " happy hour" but charged in the end full price. I obtained a phone from at&t their tactic was a free phone!! But with a minimum of a hundred dollar a month plan with a contract, and 200 dollar activation. Those are sales tactics! Are they honest? NO. CREDIT CARDS? Now thats a scam! Its servival of the fitist. Not everyone is honest. "advertising" is just firstlines sales tactics. Lol and its honestly just home security, its not an insurance company or a financial institution.
MCI's tactics are the reason there are laws about long-distance slamming, which is exactly what Firstline sales reps are trained to do with security systems.
On the AT&T; thing, I've been with Cingular (now AT&T;) for 5 years and have never, ever had to get a plan with the fees you describe. The plan I've had is $39.99/month, plus phone, and I just added a data plan for $20/month. No $200 activation. If you paid that, you should've spent some time on the Internet first.
Credit cards are the biggest scam going. No question. But I have yet to see a credit card salesperson at my front door. I did, however, get a solicitation yesterday for a card with 29.99% interest. That should be outlawed....there's no way anyone should be paying that kind of rate on a card. Which is why, by the way, I have no credit cards. Not one, and I like it like that.
As to your statement about "it's just home security", you should talk to your fellow sales partners about (start the patriotic music here) lives are saved, property preserved, God love the USA and all that.(stop music)
you guys that are complaining,theres no way you can tell me that you didnt learn valuable skills.
and if you didnt you must have been in lalaland all summer. all you people sleepin under trees in the park its crazy ive seen it. your out here already, get to work, make some ca$h money.
but one thing i didnt like about firstline is that they keep first years in the dark,kinda like paying your dues.
i learned quick thats how it worked so with that knowledge anything some managers would say you can just see through the bs sales tactics "redirect" its pretty ridicoulous sometimes. its like dude i know what your trying to do or bro im talking about this dont ask me about somethig else answer the bloody question. ha ha
but after the "initation to the cult" as some people think.lol its pretty tight as long as u work hard and play harder
also seperate work from your freakin life,i hate when coworkers thats all they talk about. i think thats why most people dont like, burnout you know.
Its definitly not for everyone it, but if you come back they reward you for that.
Think about it this way, now that you know whats going on all the more to make more flow$$$$$$
Here's what I'm guessing, and it's just speculation based on past history. They did exactly what they did a couple of years ago -- they sold their contracts to Pinnacle to get out from under the requirement to service them so they would have liquid assets to start the recruiting cycle for this year's fresh-faced group of newly-sold summer recruits.
They did it in 2002 or 2003. It's a lovely deal for them -- none of the obligations, all of the liquidity.
But someone, please...if you're going to post rumors, at least link back to something or copy an excerpt of an email or whatever, because right now it's all rumor and/or speculation.
All I know is that I am not holding my breath and I am telling my team to look for another job. It's just sad though cause I will really miss my team. I have been working here for almost two years.
I also feel horrible for our customers. What will they do? What about the investors and other companies that were doing business with Firstline?
All I know is that most people who know the inside story are leaving fast. Tons of people will suffer because they don't even know what's happening. Yet the owners get away with it. I almost feel sorry for them (the owners)... almost.
There should be an advertising director Union. Too much that the hardworking/honest college students get screwed out of by upper management/owners.
Now I was under the impression that FL didn't join with Pinnacle, in fact they now going to have to just downsize a bunch because Pinnacle didn't take FL's customers. Oh well...
As for Firstline merging/bankrupt, I have heard all that stuff too. I can't point to concrete evidence but I have talked to a lot of managers. One manager (Huffman I think) was given his backend check a few weeks ago of $25,000 and it promptly bounced. Firstline won't give him his money. Basically, about half the managers and reps have fled Firstline to other companies. Firstline is fucked. 2 of there divisions are almost entirely empty. I'm in the crowd that's swinging to other security companies for next year. I just gotta say, APX is a million times more organized and efficient than Firstline. Their pay is $400+/account even for first year reps.
I can answer many more questions if you ask em...
swingshift
I still can't find anything confirming that there's a merger or a bankruptcy. If they follow what they've done in past years, they'll be selling the contracts to someone like ADT or Pinnacle and starting again with the current recruiting season. No bankruptcy, just a nice clean slate with no past obligations. Of course, in the current economy they might have trouble finding buyers for those contracts.
Firstline is in a very bad dilemma. From my understanding, Firstline is a contract dealer. Like you said, they usually sell to established companies. However, both Pinnacle and Firstline used a monitoring company called SAI this year. This is their biggest problem. SAI has hired to monitor and manage and bill the accounts. SAI basically fucked everything up. They charged customers multiple times per month (I had one of my customers get charged 5x in August), dropped monitoring on accounts, had software failures resulting in houses not being connected to "the grid," and many other things.
Because of this instability, many of Firstline's investors withdrew their investments. ADT usually invests (by purchasing these contracts) millions of dollars in Firstline. However, this year, ADT recognized all the problems and withdrew their bid on buying the contracts. So Firstline is stuck with all these contracts and is unable to sell them off and make a ROI. This is why they are going bankrupt and having to merge with Pinnacle.
Another reason is because what I said above. I, along with 30-50 other salesmen have jumped ship to another company (NOT Pinnacle). 2 whole divisions (Papa's and Taggart's I think) are now skeletons. They have no returning workforce. They are essentially having to start at the ground again, thus the NEED to merge with Pinnacle just to make sales this next season.
ask me more
-swingshift
The scenario you describe makes a ton of sense. It's the first one that gives some legs to the rumors posted here and I'll keep watching for some news about it. You'd think that if checks are bouncing and payments aren't made to folks who worked all summer long for nothing there will be some press play somewhere about it.
BTW, there are two facebook groups around this if you're not already aware -- here and here.
From the man himself. Feel free to distribute as you'd like, there is no information above that is not a matter of public record.
I was a very loyal employee and worked very hard to build Firstline. Infact I never once looked at other companies until all my reps where leaving me because of the rumors issues of the company. Thy day Apx came to my home with the sole purpose to bring me on I told them no way, I am to loyal and love the people I worked with. Later that day I had one of my best friends Tomio Huffman call me and tell me he had quit. It scared me that all the top guys in the company where not satisfied with things and alot where quiting the industry. This is what convinced me to leave to APX.
whoever SOMEONE is that wrote the comment above. I am sorry you feel that way and hope you can forgive me for whatever I have done, but let me say this. I have my integrity and do my best to be moral in all I do. I switched out 40% of my accounts this year. FYI.
Firstline was a great company with great leaders. Its very sad what happened. I would love to see anyone run a company that size. I also do not believe The owners meant or planned anything like this to ever happen. And personally I forgive them for any problems they made.
I hurts that someone thinks I am shady and am the reason why Firstline went down and had so many issues. I love selling alarms, I love training people and hope to do it the rest of my career.
To whoever reads this message- a negative attitude will never bring you success it only tears down. And if I have wronged you I am sorry!
I respect him
I generally remove comments that are personal attacks on others. I am going to leave "someone's" comment simply because it has had a response that would appear out of context without the original comment posted.
However, it's worth remembering that while the Firstline outcome is horrible, it was inevitable and shouldn't be pinned on people who worked there and believed in what they were doing. I'm sure Jake sold those accounts because he was a good salesman who believed what he'd been told, and also believed he was helping others in their success.
To me, this is the real ugly in luring students to sell systems unter the subterfuge of a reality show. It changes the filters everyone views their actions through, masking the pyramid under a pie in the sky.
Firstline's business model was headed for failure because it presumed that many solid contracts would be sold, and that they would then resell those contracts to a third party, re-infusing the company with cash to begin recruiting anew. The pyramid collapsed when the contracts couldn't be sold, and the ones who are paying are the customers and the students, particularly those who were recruited at this time last year, asked to recruit their friends, sent into territories that were already saturated, and ultimately ended the summer owing Firstline money instead of making any.
At any rate, feel free to comment, but do keep it free of personal attacks on others. I will delete those.